Season 1 | Episode 9

Ben 

kids, kids,  

Melanie 

Kids going to school for the first time living in residence. 

Ben Garvey 

It did come this year, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

It was like hard to socially. 

Ben Garvey 

You’d think, well, you’ve been they can work with doing things like that, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Integrate me. Well, that, yeah, I know I’ve been under some crazy conditions. And then all of a sudden to go there and, you know, my priorities are was quite different. I was also paying for my schooling. I had saved up some money. So I was very focused. I’d have to say I was pretty focused. But it wasn’t easy in a different way. I think for you know, for second year, by the third year, I’d kind of that was you know everybody sort of becomes on level playing field. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

And whatnot. So I’d have to say it became easier overtime and then you sort of get in the groove of doing and thinking like you’re a university student, a student again. But you know not that I was a mature student, but I was a mature student in that sense, you know. 

Ben Garvey 

So a couple years older and the kids coming in. 

Melanie Nadeau 

I had been. I was about five years older for five years older, which you know. 

Ben Garvey 

That makes a difference at that age, right? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, at that age, I think it makes it today, these days you don’t, you know, at our age now you really think about that five years is nothing. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, but yeah, back then, in terms of life experience was quite different. So. So yeah, the first couple years, um word easy. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

But, you know overtime it got better and better. 

Ben Garvey 

Did you have doubts? Did you ever question you were doing the right thing. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Um, did I ever question? I always doing the right thing. That’s a good question. I don’t think I ever question the fact that I was going to take a practical university degree, right? OK, I don’t think I ever questioned that. I never questioned that, you know, I was motivated to do. That Waterloo is an interesting place for me. It was a very academically driven place as an engineering school and um, you know, it’s your time and Waterloo is very focused on school and work because they have that coop system that you got to get your, um, your credits for. So you’re in school for months. You’re working for months. You in school, so the intensity was so high. Did I regret maybe you know, after I graduated, I didn’t regret going to Waterloo. But while I was in, I was like, geez, I wish I had gone to McGill or somewhere else. Where I saw my friends were a little bit more liberal with their time. 

Ben Garvey 

Right there. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Where to be honest for five years it was a hustle. Because the workload was high, and then you’re constantly for me. I was moving around for different work terms around the country and yeah and then to layer it on. I had decided in one of my later years that I would go study in Europe, just to make it even more fun. So I took almost a year and went to study in Belfast. 

Ben Garvey 

Oh nice. 

 Melanie Nadeau 

Nice and as part of the degree and I had gotten Waterloo to be comfortable with the credits associated with that. And that sort of like, spiked it up a little bit. That was a great experience and. 

Ben Garvey 

There’s a cultural shift. 

Melanie Nadeau 

That was another cultural shift. 

Ben Garvey 

Waterloo, the Belfast. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, you know what was even more of a cultural shift as I think I was, despite having some life experience, I was very naive in this sense of when I the timing that I went to Belfast, you know, I thought oh, I’m going to, you know, I’ll say this very naively today at the time. But I was going to Ireland. I was gonna, you know, you see movies about Ireland. But I went to Belfast. 

Ben Garvey 

This is still the Troubles, right? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well. Yeah, was right in the Troubles. Smack into the Troubles. When I got there, um, the school I was at was University of Ulster, which was in a Protestant area.

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, I lived it and that was eye opening and that was a pretty, it was a great experience on all levels from an awareness an understanding point of view, but I went in a pretty naively. Yeah, I’ll say that. 

Ben Garvey 

Great grounding though. I mean, you know, that’s a it’s a rare thing to get to experience, especially in college at that particular stage. And with, when you combine that with your, your naval background. I mean, you get a perspective of what’s going on around you that’s a little more informed than most other, you know, university students will be there. That’s really cool. So, we go from there to you, the consulting engineering, Jacques Whitford for a while using your degree was that kind of right out of school when you came back and. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Pretty much and I had worked in some of my work terms with Jacques and some of the other consulting firms, so I was familiar with the people in that space. I had also done. And some pretty interesting projects actually. Like, it’s amazing if you are. Again, maybe because I was more experienced intern when they were hiring me, I got to do some really neat projects. And so when I, you know, was finishing school like it was very easy to get integrated right away and took more of a project management kind. Role. So I did work in environmental assessment works of Phase 1, twos and threes. I’m kind of going by memory now. It’s been a long time, over 20 years, but um, things like air quality assessments, I did containment assessments. Anyways, so it it was a, you know, good experience, but I it was not where I wanted to be, um, it’s a the consulting that side, it was different. 

Ben Garvey 

Some different kind of hustle, isn’t it? The consulting side.. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Um, you know and one of the things that I’ll credit to my time in Europe was the fact that I started to really get very interested in the energy space. Right early days and because Europe was doing some interesting things stainable energy. And so when I came back to Canada, I was always very curious, like, how could I figure out how to do something in that kind of space? And this was like early 2000s, right? So you know, we were Canada wasn’t really into renewable energy, hydropower for sure. So it’s still early days. Always kind of had that in the back of my head from a career ambition point of view. So I knew that consulting was great group of people. Lots of fun. Yeah, but it was probably not my career direction. 

Ben Garvey 

And that’s the energy interest. Leads to the three or four other steps I see in your kind of your history thereof, of International Energy agencies, cabinet, energy and arc. Um International Electrotechnical Commission works work with Emera Nova Scotia Power. Some pretty amazing stuff. Was that all around renewables? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Typically no. You know, when I started to get say, in the umbrella of energy, I was working. The on fuel efficiency standards. 

Ben Garvey 

Melanie Nadeau 

With the automotive industry, OK, so this goes back to when we were talking about electric vehicles, say maybe in, you know, early 2000s again and auto manufacturers were looking at what technologies they would put in their in their fleets overtime. 

Speaker 

Good. 

Melanie Nadeau 

To reduce their fuel emissions. And so I was involved in that from a technical point of view, trying to model what impact those technologies would have. So I’ve been at, you know, I sometimes say finally these days that I’ve been involved in electric vehicles for over 20 years, 25 years, but. 

Um, yeah. So that’s some of the work that I started to get involved in in the energy space that sort of morphed into then looking at heavy industrial fleets and regular fleets and fleets around the world. Um and use of different fuels like natural gas, hydrogen, biofuels. So it’s heavily involved in the transfer of two alternative fuels and various fleets. And then that eventually more morphed into the power energy side, right? So energy was an umbrella, but. I looked at tech. I looked at market, new markets, tech adoption, new opportunities, regulatory environment policies. And so on. So that’s how I eventually started to get more and more into the power side, which sort of then transposed from eventually moving to Halifax and working for Emera. 

Ben Garvey 

Right. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah. 

Ben Garvey 

How did that kind of meld with the when you must, you’ve been involved in the ocean, you’ve been involved in the, you know, the blue tech space? Um being in the Navy. Did you know that you would be kind of sliding back towards the ocean side of things then? Or was it? Was it an objective of yours? Because you were you were, you know, with electric vehicles, fuel, fuel efficiency standards, I mean, that can go and then and then power generation that can go anywhere in the world obviously. Looking at where you are now at COVE and the influence you have on kind of the blue tech generator and blue tech innovation space, was that always a goal for you, or did that just evolve that way? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, I don’t think I knew what I didn’t know. So…. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

It was been an evolution, so I will say what brought me to the East Coast when I was living in Ontario is I was doing a lot of work on the offshore energy side. So when I was involved in leading standards with OEMs around the world in offshore wind and offshore renewables. You know, that was sort of I guess 2011 was the year where I was approached by Emera. And had I been thinking of moving to the coast – absolutely not. 

 

Ben 

Right. 

 

Melanie Nadeau 

Even though I’ve been working around the world in in countries that had major coastlines that had um, you know, great ambitions around offshore energy and working with a lot of companies around the world with those ambitions to develop projects in markets where there was offshore sustainable energy. So it is sort of came very, very quickly where, you know, Amir had approached me and I thought well it was just a great timing and life for multiple reasons. And so I thought, why not and, you know, I think like to be blunt about it, it was if any of this is going to happen in Canada is going to happen on the East Coast and that I knew for sure. And because I had worked on both coasts and so on. And so I was pretty confident about that at the time. And so it was a bit of a risk, but it was the right move to make. And that’s how I moved to the East Coast in 2011. And then you know, the interesting thing now, as I think of my times with with Emera and the various companies and that business, I did work in offshore wind and some of the work that they were looking at there and in different markets. But it was not the only thing I did and then to come back to COVE, did I ever think that I would? I would be involved again and working with UM industry and the defence sector. Absolutely not. Like I never thought I would have done a complete 360 right from over 25 years ago. Then a yeah, that would have never come about. So I would say no, I had no idea where this was going to end up, but I’ll let’s say is that there was a lot of pieces to that journey to eventually be where I’m at now. 

 

 

Ben Garvey 

So it’s, it is a big circle, isn’t when you come back to what you’re looking at now, I mean. You were involved with Open Hydro as well, right? For a while in the in the when they were doing their work here. 

Melanie Nadeau 

That’s right. Yeah, I was. I was involved with open hydro, I was on their board as well. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah, as part of the whole tidal power project. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Here, that’s here and overseas. So I was involved in there, the open Hydro Board in Europe, yep. 

 

Ben Garvey 

Quite a I mean, they had quite a vision and were backed by NS power and seemed to be going in great, great directions there. I think that seemed to be an unfortunate end to that whole scene, but title powers had a few struggles here. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, a few struggles here and elsewhere. I think you know when I think about tidal power and general, there was a big window of opportunity and not just in Canada, but globally in and about like. Early 2010s. Yeah, there was a need for alternative power, and there’s a lot of pros to tidal power because of its and as stability and compared to predictability. 

Ben  

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Exactly. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

And and there was a lot of OEMs getting involved in investing in a lot of companies, Open Hydro being one. So Emera was an investor in Open Hydro, and eventually the majority shareholder became Energie Nouvelle right, formerly known as DCNS. 

 

 

Melanie Nadeau 

So during the time that I was involved and so there was a lot of the shifting happening in the market. And then there were regional attributes like different policies that were happening, say in Nova Scotia or in Scotland, for example, in Korea, another great market for the energy. And so there was that window of opportunity and unfortunately it passed, I think and it’s expensive. So you need sort of that big backing of companies. And I think what really ended up happening was the, you know, they couldn’t prove it quickly enough and the market maybe wasn’t ripe enough to pay for it at that time. Only think about the last decade where we sort of lost that that movement and that wave and that sort of whole investment wave that came along. Long will it come back? I’m sure it will, right? But it’s probably going to take longer because some of the other renewable technologies are coming in at a lower cost and we’re figuring out ways to balance loads now with batteries and batteries are improving dramatically. So you know, there’s a lot more variability in the options now as we try to get off carbon. So I think it will come back, but I’m not sure when. 

Ben Garvey 

How big a part of that was of its sort of closing of the window? Do you think was the rise of usher wind? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, yeah, that’s a really good question because I think when I, you know, offshore wins been really interesting because it’s cost. When I think around the time of tidal power, yeah, costs are still high in offshore win. Yeah, we’re really high. 

Ben Garvey 

Beta. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So title powers trying to get close to that reduce that delta between offshore wind and that’s that was the goal, right? Was to get closer to offshore wind and it was still pretty high. And then what we’ve seen as the offshore wind market has grown in say, I would even say like the last five years, yeah, that cost us come down pretty significantly. Is it low cost enough? I don’t know. I think there’s still room overtime to reduce costs for offshore wind, but it’s come down a lot. So I think that’s probably part of it and that’s where it goes. Like there’s a lot of other batteries. Yeah. You know, talk about batteries unpredictability, if you can now use a battery, that sort of changes the equation. And if you can reduce the cost of that so that whole delta of title power. It thought it needed to go is now even. It’s a bit. Well, even smaller or bigger like that gap that they have to close. 

Ben Garvey 

Oh no, not really. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So you know, things have changed very quickly. I would say in the last couple of years. 

Ben Garvey 

But do you think that window will open again at some point? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, I just think over time like we are going to be having to look as Canada as the world gets off carbon, we’re going to have to be looking at all sources of power and integration of that power. So you know, there’s a lot of research that’s been done in that space. There’s a lot of work that’s been done. There’s a lot of technologies that. It have proven themselves um, so I do think it’ll come back and there needs to be also social acceptance and that’s all it was a challenge for, particularly in Nova Scotia was social acceptance. 

Ben Garvey 

There was a big piece of it, wasn’t it? 

Melanie Nadeau 

So I think you know that’s all as time goes on and people are going to continue to need power and we’re going to continue to find need to find other resources. Yeah, um, renewable resources. So. So I do think it it’s going to be part of our market. I’m not sure when. 

Ben Garvey 

I’ll never forget seeing the Billboard of the blender eyed fish thing. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Which I’ll have you know, was not true, but. 

Ben Garvey 

So the protest. Of course not. Of course it wasn’t true, but yeah, it’s one of those things that perception sometimes is the is the reality, right? And that’s the hardest thing with and that’s a great segue into. And you know the challenges facing commercialization in the blue tech sector in general, no, you know with your new role where your current role may not new anymore, you’ve been at it for five years. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Almost five years. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Ben Garvey 

Um at Kohl’s, which is, you know, fantastic institution now in in our region, which is great. Um, those challenges for commercialization of blue tech and ocean tech, they’re pretty diverse and often they involve perceptions. Can you talk a little bit about where you see ohm? The majority of those challenges and what is being done about that and what were you seeing the innovation now in that in that sector? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Sure. So, you know, I think when I think about it like where we’re going to get some big wins in this sector, I think about reduction of risk. We’re duction of costs. Improvement of our understanding of how to work in a marine environment. So it kind of comes down to we have to be thinking about innovations in different ways of doing things. And so, you know, when you think about the cost of mobilizing demobilizing a ship? Yeah. The cost of fuel when you’re sending out a ship could you and the cruise that are required to take a ship out, for example, can you do that now with autonomous vehicle like I think that’s going to be the big wins. Can we do things differently? Um, can sensing be used to better understand an offshore? Environment. So I think you know those are sort of the I think the big areas for big wins and it doesn’t matter if you’re looking at, I mean when we talk about ocean or the marine sector or the maritime sector, it’s best, I mean, at COVE, we look at defence and security, fisheries and aquaculture, transportation, climate, I mean everyone of those verticals in itself are huge, but there’s going to be great wins across all those verticals. And I think that’s where, you know, the big innovations are going. Happening. Um, there’s also got to be innovations around lowering carbon, so whether on ships and different types of vessels. And these are really complex challenges and also lowering carbon along the roots that they travel, like fueling is not obvious. We you know, when you think about fueling going up into the Arctic? Yeah. And then all of a sudden is not gonna be diesel anymore. 

Ben Garvey 

Who? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Like that. That’s a very complex question, but directionally as a nation, we’re going in that direction. So there are some big challenges, you know, in the maritime space. But you know, I’m confident we’ll get there because, well, just with COVE ourselves. But we there’s such a tremendous network of companies like ingenuity and others that. Our tackling this will it be Zeno? But you know, there’s a lot of really good ideas. And then on commercializing, it takes to commercialize. It takes a lot of things. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Takes the good idea. It takes the market, it takes the customer, it takes some money. Yeah, and it takes the regulatory environment. Those are all the pieces that are required and. In a maritime space. 

Speaker 3 

Yep, and I’ll say the other thing in in the maritime space is that you know it’s a very traditional legacy oriented sector globally, yeah. 

Ben Garvey 

Very risk. Adverse. Him very risky. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Very risk of verse, you know, oftentimes tight margins. But having said that, the margins get tighter, the regulatory environment gets harder and so they’re going, you know, they have to make changes. So I think that’s sort of like a huge. Which opportunity to work with a lot of industrial players in this space and a lot of room for innovation, there’s a lot even process control like there’s a lot of automation, advanced manufacturing like those are lot of room for innovation in the sector which is kind of the good news chasing the bad. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah, yeah. 

Ben Garvey 

I right? Yeah, it’s good and it’s bad. Yeah. Do you think I mean I think some years ago and maybe the Internet, the rise of the Internet and smartphones and everything is helping this and maybe it’s hurting it. My impression has been that the general public and in some cases, policymakers and leaders around the country and around the world really just don’t have a grasp of what the blue economy is or what the what it means to take. OK. A product from A to B over the ocean, or even to pull in fish, or even to build a ferry or run a naval system or, or run even monitor. You know the the complexity involved in mooring buoy in relatively, you know coastal water and getting data off that boy whether it’s just the weather forecasting or whether it’s a, you know, video stream of a Sentinel system or a hydroform feed from a you know a submarine listening system. It I my my God is that years ago there was 0 understanding of that, but that in the last sort of 10 years that the general public and policy makers in particular are getting much more educated on that and are starting to starting to respond to the complexity. And yet I still get the sense for most people that they don’t really grasp how tough this is. We can put people in space. We can put people in the bottom of the ocean. Why can’t we communicate easily with a boy at the most of the harbor, right? Like are you seeing that sort of same level of kind of not understanding the difficulties of the end? Woman. 

Speaker 

Hi. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, I I’d say I think you’re right that there’s been an evolution and understanding of the blue economy. And so that’s good news and awareness of the complexity. One of the things that I think that we don’t do a good job at and this is I think where the art of the struggle is would say policymakers and others is we don’t we talk about the ocean economy, we don’t talk about the land economy, right? 

Ben Garvey 

It’s just the economy. 

Melanie Nadeau 

It’s just the economy, the land economy. And yet, we tend to marginalized the ocean economy. Yeah. So I think that something that does not serve as well for those that work in the blue economy space. And you know, I don’t know how we fix that because I think it’s it’s, you know, it’s historical. 

Melanie Nadeau 

And I will say that you know those that have had experience. Dense or so, whether it’s been experienced working in the offshore sector or experience. You know, being on a ship experience living close to a coastline, I think appreciate what you’re saying and that the sense of the complexity of what’s happening offshore. So even if you aren’t today have a job that’s in the technical job or whatever kind of job that’s in the blue economy, you can appreciate, based on your roots. 

Ben Garvey 

Google. 

Melanie Nadeau 

I mean, Nova Scotia is a great example of that. Sure. Most gnomes cochins have a lot of exposure experience to the. Yeah. And it’s part of the DNA. But somebody in Saskatchewan may not, for example so. 

Ben Garvey 

Right. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So I think somehow we have to bridge that. And what I have found even in like the people that I hire or that like it does take someone who’s been exposed. Yeah to that environment, so that they understand the complexity so that they can come up with the solutions right and help you know kind of navigate what the solutions can look like. Think so? There is a bit of that I think you’re right. Like you know, it’s not everybody that’s just going to pick up and figure out how to send communications from a boy or even more a buoy. Like it’s very specialized expertise, so you know we need more of that expertise and we definitely need a lot more of. Making it less niche, like just making it part of the economy, right. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah, sub talking about the blue. 

Melanie Nadeau 

And stop talking about the blue economy. It’s that economy. Yeah. I mean, if ships stop, everything stops. Everything’s not like trade stops global, and we’ve seen it. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Obviously, when you know ships have dragged anchor or whatever, yeah, O the economy stops and notionally we know that, but yet we still marginalized part of the economy consistently when we you know we do the so there’s goods and bads gaming at the blue economy. But at the same time, I think, you know we’ve got to put it in the broader perspective. Of of the type of opportunity that exists. 

Ben Garvey 

Great points. So cold this is central to this obviously and and your goal there you’ve been there about 5 years. What do you think today that’s different than your early days? Are you seeing an evolution there? A change or a walk us through how you think COVE is growing and and where the you know the follow on question obviously is what’s the vision? 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Ben Garvey 

What’s the longer term plan? I mean, there’s there’s been some big. Great new ventures, Diana, we went, I want to talk about Diana that the NATO Diana Centre. But maybe walk me through what you saw when you entered COVE, and how do you think it’s evolving? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Hmm, so you know, I started with COVE in the fall of 2020, which is mid in the coffee is not a great time to chat. 

Ben Garvey 

Kobe, Kobe. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Stabs um, you know, and I sort of took my first sort of piece of understanding really, although I’d been peripherally aware of what was happening in the ocean sector. I really had to understand. Like what does COVEs role going to be? 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So I would say at that time what I gathered, you know, there was definitely a stirred of of building a cluster of business in the ocean sector. So an acknowledgement of that, but it was very early days. Um, so I’ll. So that was September 2020, September 20. So I guess I’m just short of the five years, but we’ve so my first year was trying to understand what can this do as an organizer? Like what can we do to help grow this sector? Right. And in bridge that awareness piece and so are well armed. 

Ben Garvey 

Was that the mandate? The kind of pyramid. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So my mandate was. And from my board of directors was interesting. It was like figure out what COVE was going to be. 

Ben Garvey 

OK, OK. 

Melanie Nadeau 

And make it global. 

Ben Garvey 

Make it global. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah. And so, because I had like quite an international experience and business experience. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So you know, I would say that I kind of came in originally, not sure to be honest with you as I don’t know there was not a lot of awareness of coff even locally. 

Ben Garvey 

No. 

Speaker 3 

Melanie Nadeau 

Locally, when I talk about in Halifax, yeah, regionally. And then not a lot nationally and then pockets, um, primarily in the US and a few spots. And so, you know, when I think about where we’re at today, um, my team has grown dramatically. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So you know, we just opened up another office in downtown Dartmouth. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Where 60% of the team is there. 

Speaker 

Wow. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So we have several departments. And we’re now working with over 400 clients. And they would tell you I started with maybe a team close to five and a handful of clients. So we’ve grown dramatically, which means it’s great news because how I see it, if we’re growing, it means the industry is growing because our job, so our mandate is commercialization of marine. 

Speaker 

Back. 

Melanie Nadeau 

And we’re in enabler. So if we’re developing programs that enable the commercialization of equipment help to better companies, then that means that they’re doing well as well. So you know, in our programming areas, as you point out, we have what we call sort of incubation acceleration where Diana, NATO, Diana sits and and you know there’s no doubt that defence and security has been and will continue to be a major pillar. So this is where our transition to the lookout. And the foresight, but it will continue to be a major pillar and it’s no surprise because, you know, COVE was founded in part, you know, many, many years ago as a vision with the ship start here program under the National shipbuilding strategy. And you know in Co was about bringing in Mr. together and our focus has always been the supply chain. And we continue to think about the supply chain. So the SMEs and the sector are part of believe the prime clientele startups are there and multinationals are there, but the SME’s are really the bulk and so defence and security will continue to be a major part of what we’re doing. So whether it’s the work right now we’re doing with NORAD modernization, the being a test partner, good, um, you know, that’s where we’re testing equipment. And on the water we’re doing, we’re doing challenge programs and so on, very physical kind of long term work with the Department of. Months. There’s those pieces. There’s accelerators like working with businesses directly. That’s like the NATO Diana piece. OK, um and then thinking about, you know, the number of companies that we work with, many of the companies we work with and I don’t know if it’s a factor, you know of Canada or the OR COVE just in general where we started, but work in the dual use space, we don’t talk about dual uses of very. 3. Yeah, some people have said it. Um for some time in Canada, but it’s a still very new in our lexicon in Canada and the US is very different. They’ve been doing this for decade. 

Ben Garvey 

Julius is their thing, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Is there thing it’s decades. So it’s very, very new as a concept. But having said that, we work with a lot of companies that have been looking at selling to the defence sector, but they probably started in the commercial space, right, because the defence sector is just it’s, you know, it’s the very more challenging sector to penetrate, right. So so anyway, so I’ll just say that you know, there’s no doubt that defence and security will continue to be a strong pillar for us. Um, not to say that we’ll continue to look at innovative opportunities around climate and we’re doing some work in that space on our testing and validation side and innovation, looking at different ways, whether it’s instrumentation that we do, like our Stella Maris testing platform which. Which looks at testing different types of sensors that help to understand the ocean and climate, for example. Or is work that we’re doing with on marine carbon dioxide removal and better understanding that space, those are sort of like the moon shot ideas when we’re talking about long term, how we’re going to really understand how we reduce carbon as a nation but also? Globally. So that’s the space that COVE is in, and our companies that we work with at come to whether they were for us in certain projects or with us on certain projects or they’re coming to be part of our collective ecosystem. Our networks have a bird’s eye view directly into what we’re doing, and so, you know, we do have a lot of partnerships and whatnot and we’ll continue to. Throw that and so I see. You know, our success is the industry success, right? For me, there’s a direct correlation. If we were not doing well, it means that you know we’d have nobody to be working with. So that doesn’t work either, right? 

Speaker 

Right. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So I think you know it’s a journey, but I when I the other thing that I would say with COV, it’s been incredible to. To travel the world, um and you know, COVE is very focused on specific markets internationally and we’ve had to be very strategic and focused because you can dilute yourself very quickly. 

Ben Garvey 

Every question, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, but at the same time, like I cannot tell you the number of dignitaries that come to visit us in a very curious from parts of the world, you would have never thought to understand what we’re doing. How did we do it and how we’re building this really strong community community of Innova. Others, whether you’re a multinational innovator or you’re startup innovator. Yeah, they’re part of the. They’re part of the ecosystem. So you know it takes it takes a village, but at the same time the world is watching and that’s something that, you know, when I think back to the last couple of years is a huge differentiator. And I think there is something special in this region around this that you don’t see another markets in the world. 

Ben Garvey 

It is that related to a particular place in time. Is there related to a skill set? Is it? What is that special sauce? Because I know you know there are, there are ocean incubators all over the world and it does feel like COVE has found some nice sheer some magic that’s allowed COVE to be. 

Speaker 

No. 

Ben Garvey 

I mean, I’ve been at the events where I’ve seen the dignitaries from all kinds of countries coming and they’re all like, yeah, we need to build our own COVE. You know, we need to do this and and what? What is that? What is that magic? Do you have a sense of what the specific pieces of that are? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Um, I have a bit of a sense, but what I’ll say, what I’ve seen is that, you know, we’ve had organization approaches from the Middle East to do COVE from the US, from the UK, from Germany, like you name the country from France. They’ve come to us and ask us for exactly what you just asked and for me, I think back to, you know, when I started and I was really trying to. Cleared out for me. I think my um, my path was we’ve got to think like industry. We’ve got to think commercially and if we don’t we we start building too much of A divide. Yeah, with the main client that we have, right, which is industry. And so I think it’s very hard when you think about the other, some are more academic and there’s nothing wrong with that. But they think the way that they’re positioning themselves is different, right? And so that’s always been sort of my fundamentals and I don’t think it’s easy to do in in, you know, Now COVE has grown quite a bit. So it’s different, but in those early days when you’re starting something like this and it’s not easy to do so, I think that’s that’s the, I think that’s part of the struggle and will it come for sure in time and you know there’s other contributors like regionally we’ve got the nature when I think of cluster I’ve I’ve done you know I when I started just some research on. Innovation clusters and what does that look like and what are the ingredients you need for that? So we do have a supportive government environment, sure. And we have had, we have some innovators, we have business industry that’s interested. We have academia, strong academia, and the space a lot of great researchers. Um. And so we have a lot of the. All the right pieces. We have research centres like the Bedford Institute of Oceanography. We have defence and defence research and Development Canada, so we have a lot in our cluster. We have industrial area and so we have a lot more I think industry than just you know some other ecosystems where it may just be driven academically or not. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

So I think we have a lot of ingredients. Are we still missing some? I think so. Sure. To really kind of go to the next leg. Cool. And those are some things we’re thinking about. But, but there’s a lot of elements that we have that are in our favor and we bring, we’ve brought a lot of those elements along and you know and you know whether it’s governments to your point earlier point on saying like we’ve built an awareness around the blue economy, right. Well, that takes time, but it’s happening right? And same locally or nationally. So I think it’s a matter of time, but I think I think we’ve built or we have a lot of the write ingredients in place and there’s a few missing ones, but we need to strengthen all of those pieces. 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah, that’s a that’s a great answer. It’s it’s. It’s a fascinating structure and I’m, you know, I’m not inside like you are on the way. These on the way it’s structured and I look at what’s going on at COVE and the buzz around what’s happening there and some of the other incubators that are that are here. And I mean we have, we have, we’re blessed with a lot of natural benefits here too, being in those Scotia on the harbour with easy access to the water. When you say it’s, it’s it’s industry focused and driven by industry. I mean that, you know, industry is all about shareholder value and growth and and so where does you know it’s it’s a follow the money sort of thing at times. I mean obviously it’s growing. Obviously it’s successful and it was started originally with some some great benefactors and some great government support. Is it a self-sustaining organization now or is there are you working on long term growth strategies for revenue? What? Tell me a. Little more about how the structure work. There. What? Whatever you can share, obviously. 

Speaker 3 

What? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, you know, I equated to a business, right? So how do you build a business? 

Ben Garvey 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Sustainable revenue, diversification of revenue and shareholder values, flow management, cash flow management and long term planning. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

We have a five year operational plan financial plan. 

Ben Garvey 

1. Yeah.

Melanie Nadeau 

So very, very similar to any business. What’s unique is that and I think this has been a benefit for us, we are not-for-profit, but we’re operated and run commercially. So why that’s unique in the fact that compared to, say your business or somebody else’s business is that we don’t have 1-2 or ten shareholders to answer to, which allows us to be in a position of trust. And so I, you know, I definitely thought of it this lot like the advantages of the not-for-profit versus being a for profit. And so that allows us to work with some of our clients that our government major government, right, because we’re seeing as a you know, we don’t have personal and interests of one particular shareholder at the table. And so that’s I think pretty unique for us right now. I think there’s, you know, another interesting financial aspects of it as when you start making profit, what do you do with it and so profit gets recirculated, right? And you know, like a business. And it will continue to be that way. So I don’t think in my view it’s not any different the way that COVE is operated, it is. 

Ben Garvey 

We’re gonna see a cold foundation in the future with profits going back into support. Something else is that. 

Speaker 3 

A anything, yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, you know, it could be it could be for sure. Yeah. And and you know, I talk about what are the missing elements of? Be an innovation cluster like you know, we’re very attuned to strategically what would allow us to be successful, but would allow US industry to be successful. And what are the missing pieces? Right. And so those are the gaps that we would. Try to fill our time for sure. 

Ben Garvey 

So that’s a funding. Play it sounds like, which is a gap that all of us face when we’re innovating new. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah. 

Ben Garvey 

Things that’s fascinating. So five years ahead. I mean, we’ve been talking around it. What is code look like? 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, I think you know one of the things that we’ve got to see true is that we are focused on commercialization and marine tech. And you know, morphine is so interesting because you can include satellite. It can include a lot of things like people don’t realize again how vast, because I’ve been asked. By some stakeholders like why aren’t you looking at space? Well, we are peripherally, but we’ve gotta like, keep, like, marinas big enough. 

Speaker 3 

Yeah. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, just that challenge. Like we are interested in data from satellites, will we build a satellite and know but we are interested in data so anything that happens above the water at the water and below the water and on the seabed like that’s a pretty big. 

Speaker 3 

Right. 

Melanie Nadeau 

It’s pretty broad, right? When you just think about that, so space is in. Important so you know what will you see in over five years? Well, if we’re going on the pace of groups that we have now, we have a pretty strong growth trajectory. So a lot of big strategic initiatives that were working on UM to help accelerate the sector. I think you know you’ll see COVE expand in footprint. I’m hoping locally as well as you know, you might see us in. Nationally and other places or internationally. 

Ben Garvey 

Darlene Elvises contain satellite station. 

Speaker 3 

Yes. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah, you might. You might see hubs elsewhere. You know, our growth path is pretty strong and but we’ve got to see true to our mission and that’s something that I think we can’t falter on. Focus is important and focus is always been important to me, and although something that we’re doing so many different things and but we’re still very, very focused in our strategic planning. And it’s got us stay around. You know those verticals that I talk about, the focus on commercialization, how are we enabling industry, you know as soon as we start competing with industry, we’re not in the right spot, right? So there’s a fine balance to a lot of those pieces, but you know, we’ve got some pretty strong networks. So you know, we do have quite a strong vision, but I think you’ll see that will COVEr look very different in five years. I think it’ll look a lot bigger. I would hope that people would interpret that as good news, because that means that we’re working with more companies, we’re helping, enabling more companies, we’re attracting more capital. Um, different resources to what I will continue to think is, you know, a headquarters in Dartmouth, NS along the water. So the the you know, there’s going to be a direct ROI with anything that happens here. 

Ben Garvey 

Fantastic. It’s a great place to leave it. I mean, that’s a very, very positive optimistic look at this at the ecosystem and the and the future of COVEs or anything else you want. COVErable. What you what you see for COVE and the and the ocean tech industry in general? We haven’t hit on here. 

Melanie Nadeau 

I don’t think so. I think I shared quite a bit. 

Ben Garvey 

Cool. Yeah. That. Was good. Really appreciate it. It’s really cool. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Ben Garvey 

Thank you. Yeah. Really appreciate you taking the time. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Well, thank you. It’s easy to have a chat course. 

Ben Garvey 

That’s it’s always easy to talk to. 

Melanie Nadeau 

Yeah. Yeah. So he’s easy to talk, yeah. 

Daniel B 

This episode was produced by Me Daniel at Ingenuity Studios. If you have a story to tell about life within the marine sector or have an engineering challenge, you want to share with one of our experts, please reach out to info@enginuityinc.ca. That’s IMFOENGINUITY ink.ca, and to learn how you can overcome your organization’s harsh environment challenges, please visit our website enginuityinc.ca. 

Daniel B 

We’d love to hear from you. Until next time, Fairwinds and following seas.