Season 1 | Episode 6
Transcript
Larry Mayer: I basically try to use these instruments that would get closer to the bottom than any instrument ever had before and look at things in higher resolution than had ever been looked at before. I wanted to see if I could remotely sense those layers—acoustically sense those layers—that were providing the history of the climate, particularly the major climate changes and glacial-interglacial cycles.
Daniel Baugh: Welcome to Rough Seas: The Marine Engineering Podcast, a place where industry leaders guide us through the perilous, tumultuous, and sometimes pure crazy times of a career at sea. On this week’s episode, Ben speaks with the distinguished ocean researcher Larry Mayer, a giant in the ocean mapping and climate observation world. Over the past 50 years, Dr. Mayer has spent more than 70 months at sea on the forefront of ocean exploration and hydrographic science. His contributions to seafloor mapping and atmospheric research are as profound as his humility—and the depths of the oceans he explores.
Ben Garvey: We’ve talked before about your experiences leading up to what you do today, but if I recall correctly, you were involved in the early searches for lost submarines and all kinds of fascinating stuff. What did you take away from those early days that helped you become the climate observer and ocean mapper you are today?
Larry Mayer: Well, the reality is that when I entered graduate school in the early 1970s—it was at a place called Scripps Institution of Oceanography—they had this great way of introducing new students to what was going on there. They had an entire semester where each major professor or researcher would spend a week talking about their work.
One professor talked about a system called Deep Tow. It was developed when the Navy realized they didn’t have the capability to find something as large as a nuclear submarine on the seafloor. There had been several submarine losses, and this professor—an ex-submarine commander during WWII and a Ph.D. in physics and acoustics—was tasked to build an instrument package that could conduct detailed surveys of the seafloor.
The system, first deployed in 1966, was essentially an Atlas missile silo tube with electronics, side-scan sonar, and other tools inside. As a student, I was drawn to this idea of using new technology to look at the seafloor in ways it hadn’t been observed before.
Ben Garvey: So, what drew you to combining that technology with climate studies?
Larry Mayer: Another professor introduced us to a new field called paleoceanography, which involves analyzing deep-sea core samples to reconstruct climate conditions from the past. I was equally fascinated by both technologies and fields. I thought, “Is there a way I can combine these?” That’s what I set out to do. I wanted to use acoustic instruments to remotely sense those layers that told the story of climate history.
Ben Garvey: So, in essence, you’re trying to create a seabed core without taking a core?
Larry Mayer: That’s the ultimate goal. Even now, 50 years later, we’re still not quite there, but we’ve come closer. In those days, we used acoustics to observe the layers at high resolution and then took actual cores to validate the findings. Over time, we’ve been able to take fewer cores by improving acoustic technologies.
Ben Garvey: And you were working in full-ocean depths even then?
Larry Mayer: Absolutely. My thesis involved work at 4,500 meters, full-ocean depth. That was the beauty of Deep Tow—it could operate at any depth.
Ben Garvey: It’s fascinating that this originated from a military need driving non-military research.
Larry Mayer: Yes, there’s a long history of military requirements driving scientific advancements. For example, the Office of Naval Research in the U.S. funds work that leads to tools and discoveries with broad scientific applications.
Ben Garvey: Let’s pivot to your recent Arctic work. I believe you were investigating warm Atlantic water entering fjords and accelerating ice melt. What challenges did you face?
Larry Mayer: In the Victoria Fjord, our goal was to map the bathymetry to see if warm water could penetrate the area. Icebergs blocked our way about one-third of the way in, so we adapted. Using helicopters, we mounted a single-beam echo sounder on a cable, dipped it into open water to measure depths, and mapped enough of the fjord to confirm warm water pathways. It was like a MacGyver operation but incredibly rewarding.
Ben Garvey: That’s innovative! You had to reconfigure equipment on the fly?
Larry Mayer: Exactly. Thankfully, we had engineers from Stockholm’s KTH Technical University onboard. They had spare parts and expertise to rig up the system. It was a throwback to the days when we were constantly forced to innovate.
Ben Garvey: You’ve also worked in marine archaeology, specifically in Egypt. Can you share more about that?
Larry Mayer: Yes, we were called in to assist with sonar surveys related to Cleopatra’s temple and tomb. Offshore Alexandria, we found intriguing structures that suggest something significant is there. While I can’t say we’ve located Cleopatra’s tomb, the evidence is compelling enough to warrant further investigation.
Ben Garvey: Your career spans naval-driven research, the South Pacific, the Arctic, and even archaeology. How does this breadth of experience shape your approach to climate science?
Larry Mayer: It gives me a wide perspective, though I’m never the world’s top expert in any single field. The challenge of interdisciplinary work is balancing depth and breadth. However, this approach lets me connect ideas and methods from different domains, enriching the research.
Ben Garvey: And you’ve cultivated a diverse team at your lab in New Hampshire.
Larry Mayer: That’s right. We bring together signal processors, geophysicists, acousticians, and visualization experts. The goal is to create something greater than the sum of its parts, and I think we’ve done that successfully.
Ben Garvey: Are you optimistic about the state of research and the opportunities for young scientists today?
Larry Mayer: It’s a mixed bag. Globally, there’s promising collaboration, but there’s also growing skepticism about the value of science in some regions. For aspiring scientists, I’d recommend developing a strong quantitative background—physics, in particular—and pursuing what excites them.
Ben Garvey: What’s next for you?
Larry Mayer: I’m off to Stockholm tomorrow for Arctic research planning. Beyond that, we’re mapping the Solomon Islands and conducting Great Lakes work. We’re always thinking about what comes next, particularly in the Arctic, which remains critical from a climate perspective.
Ben Garvey: It’s exciting to see how uncrewed vessels and technologies like Starlink are revolutionizing ocean research.
Larry Mayer: Absolutely. The ability to operate from anywhere in the world with high-bandwidth connectivity is a game-changer. The next frontier will be improving underwater communication to match those capabilities.
Ben Garvey: Thank you for sharing your incredible journey, Larry. It’s always a pleasure speaking with you.
Larry Mayer: Thanks, Ben. I appreciate the opportunity. Let’s reconnect soon!
This episode was produced by Me, Daniel at Enginuity Studios. If you have a story to tell about life within the marine sector or have an engineering challenge, you want to share with one of our experts, please reach out to info@enginuityinc.ca. That’s info@enginuityinc.ca and to learn how you can overcome your organization’s harsh environment challenges, please visit our website, enginuityinc.ca. We’d love to hear from you until next time Fairwinds and following seas.
Larry Mayer
Director, University on New Hampshire School of Marine Science and Ocean Engineering
Dr. Larry Mayer’s groundbreaking research and technological contributions have revolutionized various fields of ocean science, including marine geophysics, palaeoceanography, and marine archaeology. His influential work has played a crucial role in shaping global initiatives to map the entire ocean floor by 2030.
Throughout his distinguished career, Dr. Mayer has also earned recognition for his exceptional mentorship of graduate students and postdoctoral researchers.
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